Noise on all HF Bands

Discussion in 'Interference Problems' started by Kev, Oct 27, 2015.

  1. Kev

    Kev Member

    Greetings,

    My last post consisted of a mobility power supply from my old neighbour now passed, we resolved this problem by fixing his original power supply, I did contact the manufacturer of one of the devices and they was very helpful, I gave them all details and they even got the unit back, I got another one and that was the same, so in the end gave up with them and we fixed the original unit and that sorted that out..

    However, and this has been going on some time, I just have had too much to do to deal with it, and now has come the time to do so..

    We have this noise that comes up mostly in the afternoons, but when it comes it don’t stop until the following day, it completely wipes out all my HF work, from 6m down to 80m,

    I have several resonant aerials, mostly static loops as they are quieter than dipoles, we found this out when we moved here 4 years ago, the noise floor on all bands back then was 1-3db, now it’s common to get 9bd+ apart from the 10m vertical which is extremely low noise, however it still gets that buzzing which wipes out any signals I do get, on a good day the Vertical is zero noise floor, but it never last and come afternoon time in come the buzz's and signal 9's.

    Aerial’s all 60ft from any property
    6m Static Delta Loop fed with quarter wave 75ohm feeder to aerial switch 60ft from shack.
    10m 26ft long vertical dipole, again fed into switch
    15m Static Delta Loop fed with 75ohm quarter wave to switch
    20m Static Delta Loop fed with 50ohm coax to switch
    80 Doublet fed with 450ohm ladder feed directly into shack

    Coax runs along a fence into property.

    All equipment is earthed to a separate earth rod using 10mm earth cable.
    No RF is escaping into the shack or leaking elsewhere.

    We have turned off all our mains power and run off battery, and then done the switch on test of everything we use here, and it’s not coming from us.

    We have got devices that do cause RF, but we used plenty of ferrite rings to eliminate those device rf noise issues, so we know its definitely not coming from this property.

    I have enclosed a short video of what it sounds like on AM, the noise floor is elevated to signal 9 plus, fluctuating from 7-9, but it’s that buzzing, I would like to narrow down what it could be, switch mode or lighting or what? I just don’t know and not experienced enough to tell.

    I can attenuate the noise floor down, and use a vast array of filtering, but I still got that buzz which wipes out any chance of hearing contacts, my Neighbours are ok, but I don’t think they would like me walking around in their homes testing, most are elderly and the others would think I'm nuts and wouldn’t let me in anyway, But that don’t stop me from trying to find out which possible property its coming from, also, if anyone recognises this type of sound, then it could narrow it down for me to ask my neighbours if they have anything like it and could I possibly test it, If I can’t get anywhere with that, then it will have to be a call to Ofcom to get them out and see what it is..

    All I know is that this last 6 months have been a nightmare and my logbook has suffered for it, we have both spent a lot of time and energy in this hobby and now we can’t even use it, unless we go portable, which is not good due to my partner being disabled which was the whole reason we went into this hobby to start with as she can’t get about much, so the radio for her is a godsend..

    Any info would be greatly appreciated..

    So, thanks in advance to anyone contributing to this thread.

    Regards

    Kev..

  2. Ken G3SDW

    Ken G3SDW Moderator

    Hi Kev thanks for the info about what you have done, you have done exactly what you need to initially do.

    The next thing will be to try to locate which house it is coming from, there is sadly no other way.

    From there and you must tread lightly and not go technical at all, and approach the owner and ask if he could be of assistance in solving the problem.

    In your case it could be one of three things, SMPS, LED lighting but what i have heard it could well be a Plasma TV, but who knows, these days it could be just anything at all as the average house is crammed packed with all sorts of devices capable of causing mayhem on HF.

    Perhaps you could tell us were about`s you are and your call sign as it is nice to know who we are talking to.

    I am always here to help ant any time at all.

    73
    Ken
    G3SDW
    EMCC
  3. Kev

    Kev Member

    Hi Ken,

    The Callsign is 2E0WCK,
    Bexleyheath, Kent.

    I think it could be the house behind me, I am not a very diplomatic fella really and would prefer to call in Ofcom, to be fair, I am super grumpy about it, so its best I do not knock on anyones door, hi hi.

    I have a hand all mode scanner and will go out later and double check to see if it is this particular house behind me, it could also be coming from the local council offices, as they are also a few hundred meters away behind me too, the local council recently built a load of new build properties all with solar panels fitted, and it could be the new people thats moved in to them, as we say, who knows? so I will investigate more, and keep you posted.

    I also have another vid clip from the gopro, this time its the 20m band, and this is what I get during the daytime hours.

    regards

    Kev..

  4. Ken G3SDW

    Ken G3SDW Moderator

    OK Kev, thanks for the info, well the golden rule in interference suppression is to be super cool and keep the neighbors happy at all times as if you upset the apple cart you have lost completely, so what ever you do do not lose your rag.

    If you go down the Ofcom route then all they will do is to locate were it is coming from but due to data protection they cannot tell you were and who it is, and they will say that they do not have the power to insist that the owner does anything about it, "more like they do not have any money to go down that route" as for what it is no doubt it will have a CE mark on it and to Ofcom then that is good enough, does not matter if it is a good one or not, then they will close the case.

    So you can see it is in your interest to stay calm at all times, i know how frustrating it must be but you must.

    Now you must do your home work and locate it first and then decide what you are going to do and say when you knock at there door, no one has a magic wand, if i did i would wave it for you.

    Have a think and see what you come up with.

    73
    Ken
    G3SDW
  5. Kev

    Kev Member

    Hi Ken,

    Thanks for the nice reply,

    Well thats that then aint it, so, if Ofcom would be at a loss to do anything, why do we have Ofcom who cannot regulate, and why do we have the RSGB? if there is no actual body that can regulate this noise problem properly, then this hobby is dead and buried mate.

    I contacted the Trading Standards way back when I had the first problem, what a mission that was, you cannot actually get to talk to anyone from Trading Standards, its all run by the local councils who take your complaint and then pass it on, you have no idea whatever if anything is done, as they do not even bother to contact you about it, I ended up making plenty of phone calls trying to chase it all up and kicked up such a fuss they had no choice than to talk to me, and I was then told they have very few officers dealing with all this now due to Government cutbacks, so its very clear to me this and previous Governments and the RSGB have totaly failed to deal with this problem and just cannot be bothered to deal with it, and allow rubbish goods to be sold that cause severe RF problems..

    We just dont have a chance do we, our only recourse would be to move home, or pack up the hobby altogether, after spending all this time and effort getting the licence's and then buying all the kit, for what? to be probably told by Ofcom, sorry mate tough tits.

    This is unacceptable, and I think us amateurs need to get lobbying or something, we need to do something as it appears from your reply we are pretty much stuffed and I am just wasting my time and effort in all of this because the problem is getting worse not better..

    I can get a member from my Club to go do some door knocking I am sure they would not mind if I approched them, I can do this, if the owner or tenant at the proterty says F off mate, then what?

    My immediatte neighbours are very nice people and we get on with them well, But those behind us on the main road are a different kettle of fish.

    To be fair, I am very despondant about all this, and very disapointed that we dont have much recourse in any of this, even to try and get the Governments attention regarding all the crap stuff being sold in the UK causing all this would be something, what is the RSGB doing about all this? do they have a plan to deal with it at all? or is it just well have a nice chat with ya naeighbour and see what we can do, that in many cases will not work due to other peoples prejudice's and mis-information around this hobby..

    I have recently been voted into being the Chairman of our local club, my task this next 12 months is to get some new members in and some new blood off the streets into this hobby of ours, fat chance they are going to have with all this noise we get, I am not alone in all this, and plenty of Amateurs get this now, more and more.

    I dont no what esle to say really, quite p****d off about it all Ken..

    Something seriously needs to be done by the RSGB mate, or my subs will soon stop and I will pack up and and sell up the hobby and resign as Chairman. if I cant operate from home which I need to do as my partner who is disabled is also licenced too, and she cant get out much hence why we took up this hobby to start with, then we will just forget it all as a bad 4 years of our life and move on..

    Anyway Ken, Cheers for the heads up, I will find the house and get someone else to knock and see what happens, but I wont be holding my breath and I will inform you and everyone else that reads this to the outcome, good or bad.. once thing is for certain, this will be the key for me selling the lot and doing something else..

    Regards

    Kev.
    G8HGN likes this.
  6. Ken G3SDW

    Ken G3SDW Moderator

    If only you knew what we do at the society Kev, but like you we have no power but just have a voice but if the do not listen then we are lost as you are.
    The society is run by voluntary members just like me who give there time free to do as much as we can with the limited resources that we have.
    I my self in 2008 went to the H O P to try to talk some sense into Ofcom but it fell on deaf ears but i tried.

    So Kev you must do what you must do but dont be a defeatist, i am here to help at any time at all as EMC advice coordinator for the RSGB and of course as you say you have your local club that i am sure will help if you ask but man to man you will not get anywhere if you just explode at every fence it is not the way to go about what you are trying to do.

    Kev against the world

    Please let me know how things pan out
    73
    Ken
    G3SDW
    EMCC
  7. Kev

    Kev Member

    Hi Ken,

    Cheers mate for the reply, I am very active in my club, i give lectures, help others out when asked, I was also a volunteer at the local Heritage trust site as it use to be a secret Y station during the war and we helped the Trust with our club and members to teach the visiting public of such things, we are into our radio, I also understand the voluntary side of things with the RSGB, but sadly its not enough, and I think they should do something regarding this, its fundemental to be able to hear who you are trying to contact or its dead. thats not being defeatest, its being practical, I am mr pma, not a lot fazes me, but I am also a full time carer for my disabled partner.

    I am however sadened that the organisation has not done enough to highlight this problem, I understand people have gone along to meetings, well as you have said its fallen on deaf ears, think of the talented people we have as members? think of the money? how much is spent in this country alone on this hobby? keeps a few industries alive that does, something that could fall to the wayside in years to come because of the lack of attention to the details in all this, however, thats just my synical observed and educated opinion in all this.

    I know how Governments work, which is why I think every polititian in the commons needs a letter to highlight this injustice, yes 650 letters need to be handed out from everyone in this hobby to every single polititian to highlight it, then maybe Ofcom will be scrutinised more as well as Trading Standards so we can highlight this issue of badly made electronic goods that stops us dead in our hobby, now thats something positive to keep the airwaves free of EMC.

    Leave this with me, because I think everyones going to get a shock when I am done and dusted off.. if the RSGB are afraid to tackle this problem directly, then I will, and I will put 650 letters together and set up a petition to deal with all this, as well as writing to HRH about it all, something done is better than nothing done. win or lose it will at least highlight the hobby.

    Regards

    Kev de 2E0WCK
  8. Kev

    Kev Member

    P.s.

    Ken, thank you so much for your time, it is appreciatted, and I do understand how tied you are with all this, but we need to take action and leaving it will only damage the hobby.

    regards once again,

    Kev de 2E0WCK.
  9. Ken G3SDW

    Ken G3SDW Moderator

    Kev you are seeking the ideal word, well our hobby does not exist in the ideal world and if you know were it is then please let me know.

    I also have a disabled wife.

    As long as you know what you are letting your self into and feel that you can do what needs to be done then great your efforts will be appreciated in our hobby here in the UK and across the world.

    Good luck in your quest but rest assured i will be here to help at any time at all.

    73
    Ken

    G3SDW
  10. Ken G3SDW

    Ken G3SDW Moderator

    Rest assured Kev we are doing all that anyone can do, believe me we are, if only you knew.

    As you can see mate i do not mince my words and tell it as it is, think you know were i am coming from being a fellow Londoner, and lets face it North Kent is virtually London these days

    73
    Ken
    G3SDW
  11. Kev

    Kev Member

    Hi Ken,

    yes mate i hear ya mate, make no mistake,

    I would like to ask you though of where i can find out some information, but would like to chat to you in person if thats ok,

    PM me when you get chance with a way we can have a chat mate, I have skype and of am happy to phone you direct, i have a few ideas.. lets turn the negatives into positives..PMA ..hi hi..

    regards

    Kev. de 2E0WCK..
  12. Kev

    Kev Member

    Good News!

    I found the source of the noise.

    Once I found my small receiver, I was going to make some 80m traps, and ordered some 14 swg coated, copper wire, the scanner vertical arial is just not good enough, so needed a small loop.
    We have had a lot of building work going on here for a long time and it has almost come to a close, with all the upheaval thats been going on it has not been possible to get any hobby work done or find the noise problem, until today.

    I used some of that 14swg wire and made a small loop and put it on the AOR AR 2000 on 14.210. mhz in am mode, and then went walk about to all the led lights my neighbours use in their gardens and then slowly towards the building, this was around 15:15 utc, then the outside building lights came on and wham! there is was, plain as daylight, the exact same noise I get was the energy saving florescent lighting the housing association fitted up a while ago, replacing all the old bulbs with these.

    I then went around all the buildings, 5 of them in total with 16 flats, 8 ground floor, 8 1st floor, each building has 6 of these lights fitted to them, all these lights are the problem.

    I contacted Ofcom for some advice, and now need to find the electrical lighting regs, so I know what I am talking about when I write to the Housing people, I need to request they send someone down to check they all been fitted to specification, however, later today someone sent me a message over FB to say they need the latest spec ballast in them, I have no idea regarding specs, so it is something I may need help with, although I will try and see what I can find on the internet, Ofcom was not too forth coming to what specs I should refer too, they just said "see how I get on and if no luck get back to them so see if they can do anything", I am not holding my breath..

    Will keep this post informed in case others have a similar problem, and also a couple pics of the receiver I used with my little loop..

    close_range_rdf_receiver_setup_1.png close_range_rdf_receiver_setup_2.png

    Regards

    Kev, de 2E0WCK.
    Ken G3SDW and gm3sek like this.
  13. Kev

    Kev Member

    Update,

    The housing people sent a contractor out today to check the buildings lighting system, they was even kind enough to send me a reply via txt message, stating that "repairs have been carried out to the buildings lighting" and that was that, I went to test it all again, and I can see a couple of new energy saving CFL's have been fitted, but the noise problem still exists.

    Have sent them an email requesting further information, the good news is it appears from the txt message they sent me, that there was a fault, so that's good then, because my little device found it, as to what the fault that the sparky actually found is currently a mystery..

    Definately worth setting up a scanner/receiver to root these things out.

    I may yet still have to get Ofcom involved, I am not holding my breath, but am very graetful someone did come out, just wish I had known when they was coming thats all..

    Regards,

    Kev, de 2E0WCK.
  14. Kev

    Kev Member

    Update:
    Happy New Year to everyone,

    Since my last update I have sent the housing people a detailed email asking questions on the lighting system plus many others that are relevant to this place.

    To date I have had no replies, so I called them last week and explained it all again and asked why I had not had any replies to all my emails sent in, giving them 28 days to get answers to questions from the relevant people should not have been too difficult, but alas it has been very hard indeed.

    So they sent this dear ole gentleman out who had no test equipment what so ever, and had to use my scanner, this did not start good..

    I then went around the building pointing out said lights and showing him with said scanner the noise we get, even though the lights was switched off for a change, he then turned them on and the orchestra filled the speaker of buzzing, this was enough to convince him that this was not how it should be.

    He went on to say it looked like nothing has been maintained for a while, also not good when you are paying for them to maintain it..

    We had a chat and he said "we have these new led lights" (Alarm bells ring in my head) I explained to him unless he has some kind of test equipment how on earth can he tell if it is within the EMC Directives? I got a blank look to that question... so it appears they rely on the EC stamp on everything and test nothing, they have no real test gear apart from an avo meter and a screw driver and thats about it.

    I also mentioned that I am happy to try these new lights, but you will have to turn all the others off first in order for me to really see if they transmit any further than a few feet, again I got a blank look on his face, so, he went away and came back the next day and fitted one of these lights, I did the same thing and yes they just happened to give off the same noise, deflated with that, I got him to test the emergency lighting in the building and it failed after 1 minute, as the batteries are no longer charging, which means the charging switch mode circuit is going off every few seconds also adding to the RF noise, again I got a blank look!!!!..

    I asked him what is he going to do?, lol, he said he will try and make it quiter, so I again asked him how he would do that if he has no test gear? again a blank face.... he said if all else fails he will recommend they replace all 30 lights with the old fashioned ones...

    I asked to see who made the old lights and the new LED Lights he had, and got no answer, the box was a blank brown cardboard one with no markings on it, he was very coy about it all..

    Then on Saturday I get bombarded by two of the neighbours spitting bullets saying, that man that came along screwed all the lighting up and the neighbours had no building lights on at all and was dangerous, and wanted to know what was going on, they had called the housing people and someone came out and they was told that he had wired it all in wrong, and then it appeared know one knew who he was to start with, all this was just too much..

    Today I went into the Housing Office, no more phone calls and demanded to speak to someone regarding this issue, I also took in my scanner and showed them the noises I get as all the lighting in the building they was in was giving off a massive amount of RF all over the amateur bands, I said to the lady, I am so glad I do not live next door to this place, she was shocked and so was everyone else, and they all got a lesson on EMC and RFI.

    I wanted to know why they have no test gear, how on earth can they install all this stuff without properly testing it, how can they stick to the EMC Directives without it? I understood she would have no idea, so she toddled off and came back 10 minutes later with a note saying the Electrical Supervisor Richard is coming in tomorrow and will look over all this as I want replies to my detailed emails, and that he would be in touch in a few days.

    I mentioned to her, I have no confidence in this hosuing association in being able to do the job correctly without the test gear, so it brings up questions to every single install electrically they have done, be it lighting or anything else, if they have no one qualifed or with the correct gear how can the EMC Directives be checked or tested or signed off for that matter, which is why I will now make a full complaint to Ofcom regarding this and also will be writting a long letter to my MP as well as Trading Standards.

    We must be Pro-Active in defending our Airwaves or there will be no more HF..

    So to recap, none of the current lighting system has been changed to something that does not cause RFI, what lights they have changed, still cause the problems, and they are now fully aware these lights do not conform to currrent legislation and need to be removed asap.

    Will be back here with more after the fallout of my visit to them today..

    Regards all..

    (excuse any typos, I am just drained from all this)
  15. Ken G3SDW

    Ken G3SDW Moderator

    My word you have been busy, great work.

    Well all i can say is keep up the momentum and update us when you can

    73

    Ken
    G3SDW
  16. Kev

    Kev Member

    Greetings Everyone,

    A Big thank you to Ken G3SDW, you have certainly been a rock, we cannot thank you enough..

    Tuesday 19th Jan 2016, I decided to phone Ofcom, to finally make a full complaint, exhausted all other avenues and lost total confidence in the housing people.

    I called them around lunchtime, and explained all what has been written on previous posts. I told them why it has taken me so long in finally reporting it all, they wanted to call me back, so I agreed and they did so a few hours later, basically saying, as I live in a built up area, that as these current lights will be CE approved that they can do nothing and was not going to waste time in coming along to test said lighting system.

    "Deep Breath, Let it out Slowly"

    I replied with, ''So the Amateur Bands are not a Protected set of Frequencies then it seems'', I also asked the obvious question that he would have no way in knowing, what is in the system, until they come along to look at it in person, using supposition and heresay leads to assumptions and we all know what happens then...

    I also mentioned that the current 2006 EMC regs dont mean anything then, because these companies are self regulating and sign off all their own work without anyone doing anything until something like this happens, or someone dies through a house fire caused by wiring or lighting incorrectly tested...because they have no real test equipment.. as long as they stick to the rules that are not enforced, all is good..

    This is not Good Enough!

    This is one of the fundemantal reasons why all this cheap nasty badly engineered products keep landing on our doorsteps, and it is quite clear to me that all the tax payers money that was used in getting all these regulations put into place, was a total farce and a con and it only put money in the wrong pockets for all the wrong reasons..

    We all need to get active on this, and start logging all these problems, Start kicking up a stink, why should we have to put up with this? I know many have said, and not much has been done, but lets face it, how many Amateurs have gone as far as this, I am being told not many by those that do know, we have to defend what we have or it will be lost, and this has far reaching implications for the future..

    I am not going to give up, We all need to rally around and get active

    Ofcom was shocked that I wanted the reason in writing, posted to me with a stamp, I want a hard copy with a signature, that was agreed and we confirmed my address and that was that. He did say he had looked up my station on qrz and that it was quite impressive, I said yes it is, we have spent many a year going without to pay for it, and many hours of study to get where we are today.

    I have a disabled partner who has done the same, she has studied hard under great difficulties to pass both Foundation as well as Intermediate licenses smashed on 75 micrograms of morphine an hour, and other medications and put most of us doing the exams to shame, Tina (2E0DTK) is a bright little button when the morphine don't knock her, but it is nice to sit and look at all our kit!! ... just a shame we can't use it all the time those lights are on....

    It is like owning the best car you could ever want and not be able to drive it, all he said was the same old thing, we have no power to enforce it based on the evidence so far, to which they have none other than what I have told them, and are unwilling to come along becuase they have no powers.

    A plain faced Up Yours Sucker!

    I was Stunned!

    So we can carry on funding an industry of Amateur gear but will not be able to use it, give it another 5-10 years and HF will be finished.

    Now I fully understand this does not happen to everyone, some people can just move home, some people do not live in built up areas, we have lived here four years, and I tested before signing the contract to make sure it had a decent rf floor so we could work from home.

    The average noise floor here during the day with a delta loops between 20m upto 6m is about signal 1 - 3, on the doublet it is a little higher about signal 5, of an evening on the doublet on 40m or 80m the noise floor was always below signal 5, considering we live so close to the shopping centre and so on.

    We even have a police station at the end of our road with just about every digital system on top of it, with no problems at all, just these badly made pesky lights they fitted a a few years ago.

    Trading Standards are ok if you got some iffy tobacco, or you are selling to an underage drinker.. that's about the crux of them..

    I am disgusted that nothing can be done, so, forget writting to the MP, we shall be going to see him.

    I want to know,

    What is the point of Ofcom is they cannot Enforce said legislation? why? What is the point of legislation if Ofcom Cannot Enforce it? Why?

    I will also inform the MP that Ofcom will just give them a closed letter on the matter..

    I want to know,

    Why the Amateur Bands are not PROTECTED anymore? Why?

    I will also want to know,

    What needs to be done to correct all this?...

    How many of you have packed in the Hobby because of all this?, how many of you that can only operate portable out the way of your home QTH?

    We have an amazing resource at our hands that is slowly being destroyed, the future of Amateur Radio Rest on all of us, ALL OF US..

    If we do not get ourselves together on this, then the outcome on what has happened to me, will be coming to a shack near YOU!

    We must reset all this, and I cannot do it alone, although I will certainly not be walking away without a fight I intend to Win!

    I will keep everyone informed, I want all and sundry to read this, it is time for action, we done enough talking..

    Regards to you all,

    Kev de 2E0WCK..
  17. Kev

    Kev Member

    UPDATE!

    Wow, what a learning curve........

    Not sure where to start with this one, it has certainly been a journey and half that is for sure..
    I have made some new friends on the way as well, that cannot be a bad thing can it..

    1,
    No company needs to have any kind of test equipment to test any kind of lighting, other than the usual AVO type test meter.

    As long as they stick to the wiring regs and diagrams that’s all they need to do..

    WHY: was my question, and once told it was quite obvious, everything electronic will have a CE approved stamp on it, be it fake or real, it will have it, this negates any kind of engineer having to have test equipment, other than the usual as stated before.. Because it would have gone through the CE approval system, so it must be ok.. Yeah right!!!

    2,
    Ofcom will no longer pay you a visit regarding a Energy Saving Fluorescent light, or 30 of them causing interference...

    WHY! Is the question that springs to mind? Here’s why, because it will have a CE approved stamp on it silly....

    I was informed by the Ofcom Man who spoke to me about this, and in his own words he stated:
    Ofcom "All we can do is ask them politely to change them for something that does not cause interference" and the Housing Association do not have to do anything at all as well.

    Me Why!,

    Ofcom "Because all the lighting has CE Stamps all over it, It is because they have a CE stamp and we have no power to do anything"

    Me "So, what you are saying is this, the Amateur Frequencies are no longer a Protected set of Frequencies then?

    Ofcom "Because all the lighting has CE Stamps all over it, It is because they have a CE stamp and we have no power to do anything"

    Me "Can you ask them to change them please then"
    Ofcom "We have no power to enforce anything, thank you for contacting us"

    End of phone call.

    After chatting to several people, it has become clear thus far, that to make a complaint to Ofcom requires this:
    1,
    You must find the source of the interference yourself; after all we are radio amateurs and should have the skills to find it as well as the test gear.
    2,
    You must make logs on a scanner/radio with a loop antenna at your home QTH as if you was actually going to make a contact, just like a SWL would, log everything.
    3,
    Once these logs have been done, you now must take your trusty scanner/radio with loop antenna to a similar location about 1/4 of a mile away and do the same tests again, logging everything..

    This will show that the location you live does have significant noise floor higher than another location and the tests can prove it..

    You must do this over a period of at least a week to 10 days, just in case it is some workman working in a house with his Hilti Drill on charge 24/7, or a noisy road generator.

    I would also add to this, that taking photos of said locations and mapping them on Google Maps taking screen shots to see if any Solar Panels are up on the roof tops, log everything, build a case file basically..

    Once you have all this, you can do several things.

    You can do as I did and try an appeal to the Housing People, who tried but died, I have heard nothing back in over 3 weeks now, so it appears they will be doing nothing, they don't have to do they..

    Then you can call Ofcom, to be told there is nothing they can do as they do not have the correct power to do so..

    Or if for some reason you manage to get hold of one of these lights, then you can at least do a real test on them, and if they show up to be NOT CE approved in the noise they give off, you can then get in touch with Trading Standards, who will do nothing because it’s not life threatening enough as they are also poorly resourced due to all the cut backs.

    Now that’s the quick bit I have typed, Ideally, getting hold of one of these bulbs would be a bonus, I have been offered the services of Dr David Lauder, the leading UK's expert on EMC and RFI, as I am tied to a tenancy contract, I cannot remove one of these lights and doing so would put me in breach of said contract, to which the housing people with bigger pockets than we would not hesitate to boot me out on my ear.. So this is a problem...

    Ofcom have made it quite clear, that the 2006 EMC Directive is not worth the paper it is written on, nor is the new 2014 EMC Directive that also comes into play this 1st April 2016, so Tax payers money has been wasted on legislation that cannot be enforced.. Good that ain’t it!.

    It also appears no one has tested the system like I have, and it has failed miserably, So, what next?

    My options are very limited, we can put in for a housing exchange to get moved to a location that does not suffer this kind of problem, this could take a few years due to the shortage, we could also find this problem as time goes on due to even more of this rubbish being sold in the UK market, we cannot go portable much due to Tina being so disabled, we pack up the hobby and out it, putting it down to a very bad decision.

    We can also write to the Managing Director of this Housing Association and see what comes of that.

    I do not see and please excuse me for saying this, after everything I have done, I have educated myself on the everything regarding this, including the failed laws that have been written, I have found a few good people at the RSGB, but to be totally fair, in general the RSGB You have not done enough, You have failed to test the system yourself, and the laws that you may or may not of helped in trying to get changed has totally failed, as Ofcom quite clearly do not have the power of enforcement on a lot of issues and the Amateur Bands are truly screwed for the future of more of this happening.

    My next steps could be to go see my Conservative MP, who will do his little bit of research and send me a nice letter telling me sorry mate, but due to fact that the lights are CE approved Ofcom can do nothing.

    This is what I am faced with now..

    What would YOU DO! Those reading this, I see lots of reads but no comments? Why is this, not even a good luck mate hope you get it sorted, slowly losing faith in the system and the people in it.

    Anyways, that’s my take on it all, RSGB hear me, what are you now going to do, knowing that the legislation in place is a total waste of tax payers money, and the radio frequencies are far from being protected, to me, you just appear to be just a Name with no Front..

    Do not forget this, this is all coming to a Shack near you, make no mistake..

    Regards

    Kev de 2E0WCK
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 15, 2016
  18. Kev

    Kev Member

    Hi Ken,

    No not at all, I have been convalescing for a couple of weeks; I still have a Trapped Nerve in my back that is causing me some problems to say the least.

    I was putting together a long reply to David at the time I got injured, so will be getting back to that sometime this week, I have a lot to catch up on, just a lot of pain and little time to do it all in.

    David needs to understand the full picture here before we move onwards, so I am putting together a kind of reply/report, with photos and so on.

    As I have not heard a thing from the housing people, then it will look like a phone call or email or letter to the MD to set up an interview with him to see if we can resolve this issue.

    On another note, one of our old timer amateurs has come to light, who lives not too far away from me and also has RFI, he has not operated for a long time, so I am off to his place tomorrow to see if we can DF the problem, his back garden is close to the noise source coming from where I live, so it will be interesting to see what we find tomorrow.

    BTW, I am not angry anymore, just disappointed, so maybe a little sarcastic at times, but that is to humour me more than anything else or I will go mad, lol,.

    Things have improved in the fact that it gets darker a bit later, but does not negate the fact on days like the last two with it being very overcast, raining and cloudy, those lights are on 24/7, if we get time, we try and get on before the lighting comes on, but we miss all the sun setting dx.

    80m has kind of changed, I can filter out a lot of noise, so can hear people better, obviously signals are all down due to the amount of attenuation and filtering that is used, however, I have also got the other doublet leg and rolled it back onto a plastic pipe former to remove it away from the lighting, it has obviously moved the standing wave, but it is still useable on 80m with the lower part of the band being up to about 2.5 swr going right down to 1:1 to 1:5 from about 3.620 to 3.790, and the Tuner handles the rest, so it is still works, just a bit lossy on the bottom end, as it is only used for 80m its not bad a compromise, it has reduced the noise down about an S point, the noise floor on 80m now with no amps on is about signal 6, on AM that is one dirty noisy signal 6 for sure.

    40m when these lights come on it is very difficult to hear anyone only the real strong stations pushing power.

    20m at night is not an issue due to it being winter, same as 17m, 15m, 12m, 10m, 6m, its only the daytime when the lights are on its very bad, although 10m can be worked when it is open as well as 6m, 15m can be a struggle, we just need them all changed, lol,..

    We count our blessings and try and get it sorted, if not we try and see what we can do, other than that, that is all we can do, laws certainly need to change and the power put back into Ofcom so this and other problems that will be coming can be resolved before its an issue.

    Not every day is good for me or Tina sometimes to even operate, it is just the way it is managing Tina's pain and mine as well, and we fit radio into the slots we can, or try to hi hi...

    I am going to buy a morse paddle and try and learn some morse, I have a better chance on that than I do on voice when the lighting is on.

    I am trying to find ways of working that I have not already tried, we shall see..

    Will keep you and everyone else informed..

    We still have a chance, but it could backfire on us living here as well, so for us its a big gamble..

    Chat soon,

    73,

    Kev de 2E0WCK..
  19. Kev

    Kev Member

    Greetings Friends,

    Just a quick update,

    Have a listen to the recording provided.

    This is 40m just after midnight 16_2_2016, using Yaesu FT5000MP on 7.137.000

    Listening to IK0VSY calling DX to North or South America, under normal conditions I would hear both parties clear.

    This Radio has a vast array of filtering, when in full use I still cannot get rid of the crescendo buzz's. each light bursts out a blast of high RF every 12-13 seconds and sometimes they catch up with each other, see if you can hear how many get together one after the other when they burst out.

    I have used no filtering at all in the beginning of this recording, then I slowly add the filtering to everything from the front of the radio, you will see what I am up against, if a Yaesu DX5000mp with all its bells and whistles can’t get rid of it, it tells you just how bad it really is the noise these Energy Saving CFL Lights actually give off.

    The recording is in MP3 and at 192kbps.

    http://www.2e0wck.co.uk/Noise/40m_0001_16022016_unfiltered_filtered_3.mp3

    Regards

    Kev de 2E0WCK.
  20. Kev

    Kev Member

    Greetings Friends.

    Please find some pictures using Spectrum Lab..

    Radio used Yaesu FTDX5000MP
    Antenna used 80m Doublet
    AGC was set to fast on all tests

    Plot 4 is on
    40m band 7.150
    Mode is AM
    No Filtering at all
    Time of recording 16:30 UTC on the 18 02 2016

    Plot 5
    40m Band 7.150
    Mode is LSB
    Filtering used was DNR set to 6 Width 2.4k
    Time of recording 16:35 UTC on the 18 02 2016

    Plot 6
    40m Band
    Mode is LSB
    Filtering used was DNR set to 6, Width 2.4k, VRF set to 108
    Time of recording 16:45 UTC on the 18 02 2016

    This was done 30 minutes after the outside buildings lights came on, just our building, not the others yet, they come on later..

    Will be showing much more at a later date.

    Regards

    Kev de 2E0WCK..

    Attached Files:

Share This Page