HF interference on my ring main?

Discussion in 'Interference Problems' started by M6VWM, Apr 1, 2018.

  1. M6VWM

    M6VWM Member

    Sorry for the typo not pinpoint a battery, that makes no sense. Pinpoint the times.
    Ken G3SDW likes this.
  2. Ken G3SDW

    Ken G3SDW Moderator

    Hi Matt, well hope you have success and seems the sort of guy we need to know, can you spill the beans?
  3. M6VWM

    M6VWM Member

    It's nothing secret I just can't recall the chaps callsign as I've never talked to him over the air :D. He makes the wonder wand and loops at present and few other products. Thoroughly lovely chap and so helpful, I met him at a field day and I had one of his wonder loops on my 857 at the time. He gave me some tips about getting the most of it and tuned a wire antenna I had been struggling to tune in about 2 minutes haha. The fact someone met me once and is willing to help is amazing what a wonderful guy.

    I've been mapping the signal hour by hour (when I am awake) over the past few days and it seems really evident what is going on. Hopefully he will come around next week and we will get a trace on the exact thing causing it.
  4. Ken G3SDW

    Ken G3SDW Moderator

    What you have had from this guy is the true spirit of amateur radio which sadly is not very common in today`s world
    M6VWM likes this.
  5. M6VWM

    M6VWM Member

    Snapshot of the data so far. Means I know when you invite him round :)

    Attached Files:

  6. M6VWM

    M6VWM Member

    When to*
  7. Ken G3SDW

    Ken G3SDW Moderator

    But make sure Matt that next door does not have there Plasma TV on.
  8. M6VWM

    M6VWM Member

    I had a visit from Carl G0NZI who has a direction finding antenna for HF.

    It was an intriguing evening and within only a few minutes he elimanted the neighbours both adjoined and behind my house which was a relief.

    However the finding was most bizarre and may be of interest. I have Hive heating and although the thermostat and the boiler are quiet the Hivr Door sensors were giving off noise at 80, 40m and 20m. I have three and the two st the rear were worst. Although they were giving off noise disabling them didn’t solve the problem. So more searching occurred.

    He also found a very bizarre second source which was a real surprise. High noise in the wall where the pipes for the central heating run. He has suggested getting the earth on these checked. If we touched the pipe the Hf noise changed.
  9. Ken G3SDW

    Ken G3SDW Moderator

    Dont be fooled by the pipes as because they are copper and some length then they will only exaggerate the noise as they act as a good antenna at HF.

    As for the rest of your findings then i think i have said in the past that today most RFI problems are from multiple sources.

    I hope you did not do these tests whilst your neighbours Plasma TV was on.
  10. M6VWM

    M6VWM Member

    Didn’t get any noise from the neighbours tv or house at the time but that’s a good point I don’t know if it was on or off. There was s8 noise in the house at the time but he had a directional antenna so he could literally find the direction. The hottest spot from a wall with pipes behind. Now power there.
  11. M6VWM

    M6VWM Member

    No power I meant
  12. Ken G3SDW

    Ken G3SDW Moderator

    Yes but as I said do not get mixed by the pipes as any good long conductors will give you the same, phone lines, mains cables and long copper pipes.
    Just concentrate on the direction found and prove that by getting several cross bearings.
    M6VWM likes this.
  13. M6VWM

    M6VWM Member

    Great Thankyou, his little direction finder is brilliant we will do some more tracking i am sure.

    Rather amazingly he loaned me an antenna he is working on to try he thought may help and I just installed it. The noise was 7 on the old one and within 5 minutes I seem to have zero. Rather stunned but I appreciate it may be a coincidence.
  14. Ken G3SDW

    Ken G3SDW Moderator

    Tell me what you have been using before and what you have now?
  15. M6VWM

    M6VWM Member

    I had a Par EndFed antenna before which was sloping and the one he has loaned me seems to be an end fed too but as it is shorter I can put it horizontal in the garden.
  16. Ken G3SDW

    Ken G3SDW Moderator

    Roughly how long and is it matched with a 9:1 UnUn, does it have an earth terminal or a counterpoise?
  17. Ken G3SDW

    Ken G3SDW Moderator

    What model Par Endfedz have you been using, just been doing some reading on them.
  18. M6VWM

    M6VWM Member

    It was the mk2 I was using before.

    Sadly it seems to have been a coincidence got home from the day to find s8 again.

    Although the hive sensors did show as giving off noise removing the batteries made no difference. There is still something weird from the copper pipe but that’s it. Odd that their tv didnt seem to give off any when testing.
  19. Ken G3SDW

    Ken G3SDW Moderator

    Talk to them and ask to do some tests with there Plasma TV as when on they will always give off RFI.

    So if it was off when you done some tests then there would not have been any RFI.

    Don't get too confused by the pipes or you will go round in circles, other than that the boiler that is associated with the pipes could well be radiating RFI.
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018
    M6VWM likes this.
  20. M6VWM

    M6VWM Member

    So update to date:
    • Did a complete replacement of my fuse box with a modern RCD unit and this highlighted a few dodgy bulbs and devices which were thrown away.
    • Got a look at neighbours TV, I don't believe it is a plasma (I think their old one may have been so they must have changed it recently) and even unplugging it made no difference.
      • In fact the neighbours TV is on at this very moment and I have zero noise on 20m but the ever present s8 on 40m and 80m is there. This never ever disappears and is there.
      • Neighbour wasn't keen to switch off fuse box due to house alarm and the challenges of resetting it after. So I have asked if they have PCs or anything with switching power supplies. Laptops only apparently.
    • G0NZI loaned me an antenna to see if noise could be improved, horizontal alignment gave a slightly improvement but not much. He has been very helpful and encouraging me to try different things such as moving feed points etc which has been amazing but no real eureka moment so far. He plans to come back with his direction finding antenna and see what we can work out and I hope to persuade my neighbour to let us check for devices in their house but its a rather awkward and uncomfortable experience as I'm sure you know all too well.
    • I watched the RSGB video on gathering EMC evidence but sadly I am not equipped or knowledgeable enough to complete or provide the detail of evidence. I wish there was some kind of service or support out there to help with this.
    • No solar panels within 100m of my house but some further out.

    Remaining leads:
    I need to find a way to show a waterfall of the noise to spot any patterns which may help identify what it could be. No-one in my club knows how to do this sadly.
    Lots of my neighbours have LED lights outside, again as it doesn't directly relate to dark hours its hard to link them.
    Fellow club members across town are seeing Wimax antennas (VDSL?) going up causing very bad noise indeed, not seen any here but could be? Read this and seems if it is this we can expect no action to be taken by ofcom. http://www.norfolkamateurradio.org/...03-the-nice-people-at-ofcom-and-openreach-not
    Virgin media boxes and equipment are rather old, I know from being a customer they don't maintain properly and only when failing. No idea if they can cause problems?
    We have LED light bulbs in streetlamps in our street, seen videos of them turning on and causing noise. Unlikely as the noise is not linked to dark hours.

    Conclusion:I am sadly at the brink of selling up and throwing in the towel, although G0NZI keeps encouraging me to keep trying. :) Far from being fun, radio has turned out to be disheartening and frustrating. The people I've met are amazing but my radio is mostly off. The more I learn about this the more I realise how ill equipped I am to combat this. I think sadly you need to be a real expert to find this and have the right equipment, as a newbie its rather overwhelming. 6 months almost to the day of passing my test and I have just 6 hf contacts and I can't see me carrying on with it anymore.

    I want to thank you for your continued support, the RSGB are amazing and so supportive but as someone new to the hobby it really feels like a losing battle, short of legal action with ofcom I don't see how the tide can be turned if their attitude is that consumers desire for broadband will always beat EMC pollution. That attitude with time will spread to every other kind of device too.

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