EMC friendly isp

Discussion in 'EMC Matters' started by Mark Owen, Mar 10, 2020.

  1. Mark Owen

    Mark Owen New Member

    Hi all im going to switch internet providers shortly, and I am thinking of virgin cable purely as there’s a small virgin cabinet outside my house. Are virgins routers (EMC) friendly? im guessing the SMPU will be noisy but not sure. Are any of you guys using Virgin? how have you found them EMC wise?, and what isp’s are you guys using or would recommend. At present im using SKY ADSL as I was an O2 customer I just transferred over when SKY bought out O2’s Broadband business but sky’s prices are going up and there speeds are going down just really looking for an EMC friendly solution thanks. 73’s de GW0PZZ
  2. Ken G3SDW

    Ken G3SDW Moderator

    Well Mark like you i also was with O2 and went over to Sky ADSL, after the take over of there BB system and as you said prices went up and up.

    Like you, decided to make a move and i done some research and found that i could get a complete package, BB + phone, free UK calls 24/7 for under £40/month and that is for VDSL.
    Brilliant router, great WiFi and very fast, for me anyway, 37 down and 12 up

    No noise what so ever, plus a great company to be with, as good as there adverts say.

    They are owned by BT but run completely independently.

    Give it some thought, as for your question regarding Virgin, then i have had a couple of cases were there boxes gave off high levels of noise, they were replaced, eventually, but it was a fight, plus the price for Virgin is rather high in comparison and there after service is slow and quite poor.

    Hope this helps.
  3. Mark Owen

    Mark Owen New Member

    Hi Ken sorry for the delay in replying been a bit busy, I’m guessing your talking about PlusNet is that correct?. Ken I have to say i am a little confused i don’t know a great deal about VDSL apart from the QRM it creates courtesy of BT, is VDSL only a problem if it’s supplied by BT ??. One of the reasons I was considering Virgin was that I thought VDSL was a QRM problem. I’ve only had experience of ADSL connections, and the other reason I was leaning towards Virgin was that I only require Broadband no phone or TV required, to be honest Ken I have low user Tariff on my BT phone line as it’s never been used much, thank you for your reply Ken cheers 73’ de GW0PZZ
  4. Ken G3SDW

    Ken G3SDW Moderator

    Hi Mark well concerning VDSL and BT, no VDSL is super fast broadband no matter were you get it from, but installed properly will not give a problem at all, the problems that you hear about is because it has been self installed with multiple connections and no doubt not using the correct face plate

    I must apologise for not saying that i use Plusnet, yes i do and very impressed, only for BB and phone.

    Virgin generally speaking does not give a problem due to there cables being underground but as i did say i have had a couple of cases were the SMPS with the Virgin box gave high levels of noise, but again i mentioned that the cost of Virgin even with it only being used for BB only is in my opinion very high plus there service is very poor indeed.

    Choice is totally yours but dont, like many others, think that VDSL is a noise generator, it can be if not installed properly, like many other things.

    If there was a problem locally then you would know about it already.
  5. Mark Owen

    Mark Owen New Member

    Hi Ken thanks for explaining about the VDSL, like I said I only really want BB so I will have to shop around. Regarding noise well I have about S8 to S9 of white noise with some plasma and smpu on 160 to 80m then it starts to drop off and from 20mrts up is not too bad, can’t see this improving any time soon with all the NAFF consumer electronics from the PRC (Peoples Republic of Crap) being sold on EBay and Amazon etc Ken thanks for your help its appreciated 73’s de GW0PZZ
  6. Ken G3SDW

    Ken G3SDW Moderator

    Hi Mark, doubt very much that you have any Plasma TV`s around any more but SMPSs yes loads of them in every household, but they are not all bad, some that have the filtering capacitors removed then you they do for sure.

    If you need just BB then you have lots to choose from, Sky routers are OK for noise, so are Plusnet, stay away from BT and TalkTalk, as for Virgin then yes they are fast but expensive, your choice.

    At the end of the day who ever you go for then if there SMPS for the router is noisy then make it quite clear on the onset that should it be then you will reject it as not fit for purpose.

    Let me know how you get on.

    Good luck.
  7. G0SZI

    G0SZI New Member

    Hi Mark
    I actually work for Virgin media and would be happy to answer any questions you may have unfortunately I don't actually have it at home as my address is not near the local Network. I'd be happy to help with any queries you might have. As far as i'm aware the PSU's used on all the kit are OK (I could always disect some) Hi Hi. or just bring some indoors put a load on them and see if I hear anything on HF (most unlikely) .

    If you find me on Facebook I'd be happy to discuss things on there.

    Danny G0SZI
  8. Ken G3SDW

    Ken G3SDW Moderator

    Thank you for replying to Marks question, i have tried to help as much as possible with cases of noise generated by SMPS from ISP routers

    Virgin only had two which after all sorts of unhelpful phone calls to Virgin support eventually had the items replaced, your guys do not understand anything about EMC.

    Your systems are generally quiet being fed with underground cables, let us hope that Mark makes the right decision.

    We appreciate your offer to help Mark with his problem.
  9. G0SZI

    G0SZI New Member

    The Virgin network operates on the licence that it is a closed network. As time has progressed with the advent of docsis 3.1this has required everybody to be more vigilant of uncapped taps or outlets in consumers homes. A noisy faulty PSU can and has at times fed noise back into the network causing major SNR issues.

    I'm sure the right decision will be made here. As a sufferer of VDSL noise and OFCOM's denial of responsibility passing it on into Openreach who then say there is nothing they can do.
    I know the type of Broadband provider I would be with.

    Danny
  10. Ken G3SDW

    Ken G3SDW Moderator

    Of course Danny, i report on every day cases of RFI O/B/O the RSGB and as i said before i have only in the last two years found two noisy PSU`s

    As for VDSL well the most frequent findings are when routers are put in as a self install which uses multiple extensions, this throws the system into a unbalanced state and then trouble is caused along with poor connections on drop wires causing the same problem.

    When all is equal then there is not a problem, but yes BT does pass the buck and Ofcom denies all.
  11. G0SZI

    G0SZI New Member

    This was my response after a long process.
    I was not amused at all. There was mention of study being done with regards to whether levels of noise from vdsl lines were excessive but nobody would divulge any further information.
    It seems that this situation will only get worse.
    We have investigated the network in the area of the complainant and we have identified various network impairments for which we have arranged an engineering visit. These issues have now been repaired and network is all testing ok.

    Quote
    "Although our network is now testing ok there is evidence of home wiring issues arising on some of the neighbouring circuits. This could be down to several factors such as the use of distributed micro filters rather than a managed installation with a central splitter or star wiring in the home which can result in increased emission levels.

    Openreach are not in a position to change such installations without a job being raised by the Communication Provider as this is a chargeable service. There is no further action we can take at this point.


    Sorry this isn’t better news for Mr Green, there are a large number of bridge taps in the area and this will undoubtedly lead to an increased noise floor in the area."

    Danny
    Ken G3SDW likes this.

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